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Alex Lloro
All Marketing Services
SEO Vs. PPC Smackdown
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All Marketing Services is a Washington DC-based digital marketing agency with clients all over the US and Canada. We focus on Conversion Rate Optimization or, in plain English, getting more leads/sales to our clients. We cover every need your company may have from digital strategy to PPC campaign management, SEO, social media, website design.

In this episode

Alex Lloro of All Marketing Services acknowledges that Search Engine Optimization (SEO) can be cheaper than Pay Per Click (PPC), but the best return on your investment comes from doing both. Many times PPC traffic is better quality than organic traffic as the intent to purchase is often higher. Alex is clear when he says if your goal is to make money, then traffic that converts, which is more likely to come from PPC, is the traffic you want. He emphasizes that PPC can eliminate your dependence on Google search engine algorithm changes but you'll overspend if you only do PPC without blending in some SEO. Mobile devices are shifting the balance towards PPC since the top organic results isn't even showing on the first screen due to all the ads Google displays first. Listen to the end for a compelling gift Alex is offering our listeners.

SEO Vs. PPC SmackdownAlex Lloro
00:00 / 22:18

A glimpse of what you'll hear


04:38 Getting SEO and PPC to play nicely in the same sandbox.

05:50 Collect and analyze your data to optimize your mix of SEO and PPC.

07:12 SEO is delivering less and less on mobile devices.

10:25 The benefits from optimizing your mix of SEO and PPC.

13:12 What you need to do to optimize your mix of SEO and PPC.

16:58 Learn about Alex. Email Alex at

Episode Transcript
(Note: this was transcribed using transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast.)

Centricity Introduction 0:04

Welcome to the Best Kept Secret videocast and podcast from Centricity. If you're a B2B service professional, use our five step process to go from the grind of chasing every sale. to keeping your pipeline full with prospects knocking on your door to buy from you. We give you the freedom of time and a life outside of your business. Each episode features an executive from a B2B services company sharing their provocative perspective on an opportunity that many of their clients are missing out on. It's how we teach our clients to get executive decision makers to buy without being salesy or spammy. Here's our host, the co founder and CEO of Centricity, Jay Kingley.

Jay Kingley 0:43

I'm Jay Kingley, co founder and CEO of Centricity. Welcome to another episode of our Best Kept Secret show, where I'm happy to welcome back for his second visit. Alex, Lloro, CEO of All Marketing Services. All Marketing Services as a digital marketing agency focused on conversion rate optimisation, in addition to the broader range of services, including digital strategy, pay per click, SEO, social media, and marketing automation services. Alex is based in Washington, DC. Welcome to the show. Alex,

Alex Lloro 1:20

Thank you so much for having me. And it is an honor to be here for the second time.

Jay Kingley 1:25

Fabulous, Alex, I love talking to small business owners, even mid market size companies. And one of my favorite topics that I like to talk to them about is marketing. And one of the things that I hear a lot of people saying, I'm pretty savvy, what I do to get traffic to my website, is I go all in on organic traffic, because organic traffic is higher quality, and it's much lower cost. Why would I want to make Google wealthy by buying ads, when all I really need to do is do some SEO, and watch clients come flooding to my website? And you know, those ad people, they're just interested in lining their own pockets. So Alex, let me ask you based on your experience, is that a fair argument? Or are companies that are thinking like this missing something?

Alex Lloro 2:30

In my experience, and they are missing a lot. I completely agree with the second part of this statement. SEO is much cheaper, than paid search is about seven times cheaper. There are different studies, and it may vary between five to seven times. But you are there is a misunderstanding about the heck traffic. SEO traffic is higher quality than traffic from PPC. And that's not true. Because many times SEO traffic, organic traffic does not have an intent is yes, informative. So they visit your website, maybe they read a blog post that talks about something that is relevant for them, but they are not ready to buy or to sign up for a demo, or whatever the action that you want them to, to perform on their website. So yes, they can bring in a lot of traffic. But the quality is not probably the one that is going to convert. So the conversion rate for SEO, organic traffic is a usually a lower than traffic coming from PPC.

Jay Kingley 3:43

So if I'm going to be a little cynical and interpreting what you say, if, as the business owner, I just want to be famous, I want everybody to hear about me, then it doesn't matter the quality of the people coming in, because the intention is to make me well known. But if I'm really about running a business, and I am looking for clients, what I am after is people searching with intent coming to me because they have intention around having a pain point that I can help them with and so they are looking for that solution. Alex, let me ask you another related question. This time on the pay per click side. I think everybody understands that you create your ad, you put a keyword or two in there, then you search on that keyword. So how does that approach of doing you know Pay Per Click fit in with your need to also do SEO and I think what I'm hearing you say is you've got to bring them both together. You don't do one in place to the other, but talk a bit more about how they fit together.

Alex Lloro 4:59

First thing never put all your eggs in one basket. What happened to Quora last June 2021. Quora completely disappear from organic results on Google, just because of our new algorithm. If you rely only on organic traffic, from one day to another, your business can be completely irrelevant. And you can lose everything. So that is one huge reason to do both. And don't believe that just SEO or putting everything all in on SEO, or PPC is a good solution. No, if you do that, if you put all your money on PPC, you're going to overspend a lot of money. When you put all your money on SEO, you're going to miss a lot of traffic that you should be receiving something like Quora can happen to you.

Jay Kingley 5:58

So Alex, I think that begs the question of how should be company how should companies be looking at this issue? How do you figure out the right mix between SEO and pay per click what at a strategic level is the way that a company should be approaching this issue?

Alex Lloro 6:18

Coming back to the first time we talk, we talk about data. And we have to rely on data, we know which keywords are bringing in traffic, we can know the quality of that traffic. So we just need PPC to complement that traffic that we have already receiving. And there are some times that you can be number one on Google organic result. But you're not receiving maybe one third I don't know 1/5 of the traffic that that keyword generates on Google, because people is clicking on the ads on top. And you may be even irrelevant for a very competitive keyword. If four ads are appearing on top of your organic result, many people doesn't realize that they are clicking on an ad or on an organic result. So you are the fifth for them, not just the number one.

Jay Kingley 7:17

So you're saying it doesn't matter. If you are number one on organic, if you're number five on the page, what matters is where you are on the page, because that's how people that are looking for you are going to see you. Alex, I know that people increasingly are doing more and more on their mobile devices, away from their desktop topping the larger screens, what's the impact of what you're talking about, as you go to the smaller more mobile devices?

Alex Lloro 7:49

Well, on mobile is getting even worse on our desktop. If you are the first organic result, probably you will appear at the bottom of the above the fold area. On my mobile device, there is no space for an organic result. For a competitive markets, you are not on top of default, people will need to scroll. And most of them want to that because they are clicking on the first results that they see on Google, Microsoft and all the search engines they make every year harder and harder to realize that you're clicking on an ad compared to an organic result. A few years ago, there was a different call or it was a different column then they move it to the job. Nowadays, the difference between an ad and an organic result is very subtle, and is going to be like that in the future. Because in the end, Google, Microsoft, they make money when you click on an ad, not when you are clicking on an organic result. And they are in it for the money. So they want you to click on the ads. And that's why they are trying their best. Not only that, so we more ads on top. But also they are removing the need for clicking on websites. They are providing you with information with question and people usually ask so you have the answer without clicking and visiting the website they are destroying. And I see a number of clients that are losing a lot of organic traffic because of that, because Google is providing the information that people are looking for on Google. And they don't need to click on your website to find the information that they need.

Jay Kingley 9:42

So you're telling me Alex that all the big tech guys are more interested in their business than yours shocking.

Alex Lloro 9:52

For sure, they are a business and they are both public and they want their businesses making money. So for sure although all they do is to generate more money, they don't care about their business as appearing on Google. They care about their revenue as any other business.

Jay Kingley 10:10

So that really places the burden on the small business owner or the midsize business executive team marketing folks to take responsibility and they can't assume that Google, Microsoft, Facebook et al, they're going to have their best interests at heart. So you've got to be savvy, you've got to know how to play the game. And what I'm also hearing you say is that the rules change, and you have got to stay on top of all the changes, and be agile and nimble in adjusting how you play the game. But at the same time, you really need to think about a mixture of pay per click, and SEO and balancing that out so that you get your optimum results. So Alex, this, this brings me onto if a business does what you suggest, and incorporates an appropriately mixed efforts around SEO and around pay per click, tell me how they're how you would expect them to benefit

Alex Lloro 11:19

While the recent study from Google. And they demonstrated that even if you are ranking number one, for an organic keyword. So when an ad on your brand, for that keyword will increase the chances of getting a click in a 50%. And this study has a few years. So right now and on mobile devices, the chances is going to be much higher than 50%.

Jay Kingley 11:48

Alex, have you, in your experience, seen these results? Because again, the Cindy's gonna say, Google would say that with me, what do you see,

Alex Lloro 11:57

I see a bigger trend than just 50%. I have clients that are nobodies are receiving 82% of their traffic from mobile devices. On a mobile device, organic results are getting almost no traffic, even if they are number one, number two, so when ads for your brand terms, from keywords that you are ranking really high on top three. So in ads will help you to increase the traffic to your website. And one you will lose business because in the end, this is about business about generating leads about generating sales, even if you are number one, but people are not clicking on your link, you're losing a lot of money there.

Jay Kingley 12:46

Now it's what would you say to a company that is in a position that I talked about in our opening, they've thought that they should go all in on SEO, not put any investment in pay per click, you have made this very compelling argument that there is a better way forward that doing them both optimizing them together is going to give you a better result. But what do you say if if that company says, I agree, Alex, I agree with you. I mean, it's compelling. But this is something maybe we'll do back half of this year. Maybe we do next year. You know, I just want to continue doing what I have been doing. What do you say to that?

Alex Lloro 13:35

It is okay, if you want to continue in growing as you're growing right now. Is is okay. But if you want to grow in a bigger amount, your business, you need to do that now. Because you are missing a lot of clicks. That could bring a lot of traffic and business for your company.

Jay Kingley 13:55

The argument I think is compelling. I think there ought to be a sense of urgency for any business that is looking to grow, and I don't know many that aren't looking to grow. So how would a company or head of marketing implement what you are advocating? How do they figure out how to blend together SEO with pay per click?

Alex Lloro 14:20

They have the first bar of what they should be doing that is the keyword research. They know as sadly which keywords are relevant for their business, they have good rank is first one of those keywords. So well. They need to take a look analyze the data and say okay, for these keywords. They have a lot of number of searches every month, and we are not ranking well. You can start with those keywords. So you are getting additional traffic that you're not receiving. And once you've worked on those keywords, you can even work on those ones that have a really good ranking and I'm talking about number one number two position, but they are not generating the expected of traffic for the number of services that they have. And you can bid on those keywords also, and you will see how you're getting a higher number of clicks.

Jay Kingley 15:14

And Alex, how do you think about figuring out the optimization, how much you should be putting into a SEO versus how much you should be doing pay per click?

Alex Lloro 15:25

That will depend on the data, again, depending on how much traffic over the total number of searches for that term, in your local area, the country level depending on your target market. And that data will tell you, Okay, you are getting really low amount of traffic, then, when you should bet on PPC, if you're getting a fair amount of traffic, probably, I would just recommend you to focus on all the keywords that you're not ranking on, on the top five positions. So depending on the results and the data, your strategy will be one or a different one.

Jay Kingley 16:11

Alex, I think you have enlightened me and my audience that you just can't blindly say, wouldn't organic traffic be cheaper, when what you really need to be asking yourself is what marketing tactics do I need to use that will generate the greatest revenue from that traffic at the greatest gross contribution, taking into account how much I am paying to get that traffic is let's be real. Even SEO has a cost. Whether you're using an outside firm, or you're spending your own time to constantly optimize around your keywords and staying on top of your keyword research. Time is money. So create that optimal financial model. We are now going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we're gonna learn a bit more about Alex.

Centricity Introduction 17:13

Wondering how much longer you have to grind and chase after every lead conversation and client, would you like clients to knock on your door so you no longer have to pitch follow up and spam decision makers. Well Centricity's The Tipping Point program uses a proven five step process that will help you get in front of the decision makers you need by spending less time on doing all of the things you hate. It's not cold, calling cold email, cold outreach on LinkedIn or any other social media platform, or spending money on ads. But it has a 35 times higher ROI than any of those things, leveraging your expertise and insights that your prospects and network value. The best part even though you'll see results in 90 days, you get to work with the Centricity team for an entire year to make sure you have all the pieces in place and working. So you can start having freedom of time and a life outside of your business. So email to schedule an 18 minute call to learn more.

Jay Kingley 18:12

Welcome back. We're talking to Alex Lloro of all marketing services. Let's find out a bit more about Alex. Alex, I'd like to start by you telling our audience what are the pain points that you solve for your clients? And why do they need you to get rid of the pain.

Alex Lloro 18:32

I like other agencies, maybe because I have an entrepreneurial background, I have created different companies in the past. So I love to learn about the business of my clients and bring and help them not only improve their marketing, but their grow their revenue. And that's something that not all marketing agencies do. So that he said what we help is grow their businesses, not just improve their marketing results.

Jay Kingley 19:02

Now, Alex, for our audience in the spirit of full disclosure, is one of Centricity's awesome clients. And one of the things that Alex knows that we do in many of our community meetings at sentirsi to help all of our clients get to know each other better, is something we call a memorable moment. And the way this works is I am going to ask Alex to give me a number between one and 411. And that corresponds to the number of questions we have in our memorable moments. database. So this will be something that Alex has no idea what's coming in, we're gonna put him on the spot, and he is going to reveal something about himself that even those closest to him probably don't know Are you ready, Alex?

Alex Lloro 20:02

No, I'm not but so...

Jay Kingley 20:06

Outstanding that never stops us. So Alex, give me your number one to 411.

Alex Lloro 20:14

Well we are talking about the SEO, so let's use a number that is relevant for SEO like a 301.

Jay Kingley 20:20

Okay, Alex, how is that relevant to SEO? And no, that's not your question.

Alex Lloro 20:25

301 is their revenue deck, when you make rate our website to a different platform, you have to migrate all the URLs to the new scheme of the new CMS that you're using. So you use something called 301 redirects.

Jay Kingley 20:41

Okay, the 301 redirect. There we go. That's another tidbit that I learned today. Okay, Alex, here is your question number 301. What things bring joy to your life?

Alex Lloro 20:56

My kids, I have no doubt about that.

Jay Kingley 20:59

So tell us a little bit about your kids, when they are seven and nine. They are really cheerful, they are always want to play they are always having those kinds of answers that you don't expect that they're making you laugh. So one is, I love to spend time with them.

Boys or girls?

Alex Lloro 21:22

A girl and a boy.

Jay Kingley 21:24

What is the most common emotion that you feel when you interact with him? What is the thing that they make you do the most?

Alex Lloro 21:31

Laugh. for sure.

Jay Kingley 21:34

I love that. As a parent myself. I don't know. Maybe I cried a little bit too. But I think it's fabulous. And Alex, I cry when they say I hope when they're teenagers, you are still able to laugh. So enjoy it. Alex, you have been as you were previously a joy to have on the show, I am sure this topic of how do you balance SEO against pay per click is something there are a lot of people in our audience that would like to learn more about. So what is the best way for our audience to get in touch with you?

Alex Lloro 22:18

Well, they can send me an email Or they can visit our website. And they can well request a free consultation.

Jay Kingley 22:28

And I will of course put Alex's contact information in the show notes and in the videocast. Now Alex, I know this is not your first time. So you darn well know that no one gets on this show and gets out without having a gift for our wonderful audience. So don't act surprised. You knew it was coming. What can you offer our audience this time?

Alex Lloro 22:58

I knew that some of these time what we are offering is a free audit of their SEO traffic and put together a small plan. If they want to start running some advertising. Give them some strategy based on the data of their website.

Jay Kingley 23:15

All of you need to take advantage of Alex's very kind gift. Alex, I want to thank you for educating us and challenging our conventional wisdom that SEO is always the way to go to the exclusion of pay per click. I think you have brought a lot of perspective and insight and nuance into the right way to think about it so that we can get the best results to our audience. Let's continue to crush it. Until next time

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